Netcode issues

[Nightmare85]

Hi,

Some guys and me are currently discussing about the netcode problems of UT3.
The thread was exceptionally not created by me :D

I think there are some serious differences between online and offline playing.
I found 5 by now:
(Screenshots can be enlarged of course)


1) Impact Hammer Jump takes 50 hp instead of 25 hp.

I tried it on many online servers - always the same! It costs 50 hp.


Offline it costs only 25 hp under the same conditions (full hammer power).

Vegas told me it only happens on Linux servers, but I hardly believe it because I experience that really on any server.
That would mean every server was on Linux but I doubt it a little bit...
(Even official Epic servers have this problem.)


2) Jump pads work online differently than offline.

Offline:
You can just walk on them and when you are on a high position, you can make a jump.
If you have jump boots, you can get higher.

Online:
If you just walk on the jump pad, the 2nd jump won't be possible.
You have to jump on it.




3) No shooting at enemies possible, if the ping is a little bit high.

Well, there seems to be no (or a bad) lag compensation.
That means you always have to think where the enemy could be after x ms.


4) Shots sometimes don't come out.

During some fights your shots simply don't come out.
Sometimes there is a big delay when you want to shoot.
I often experience this with the Avril.
I have to wait a long time until it gets reloaded.


5) Delays during weapon switches.

Happens often, too.
You shoot, stop shooting and wants to switch your weapon.
Can take a long time, too.
I'm relative sure it's not a problem in offline mode.
_______
I think some of you, as server admins, may know a lot of more about the online mode of UT3.

Here the thread: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=629922
My post is here: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=25654645&postcount=47

Greets

[VegasKill]

Also the hoverboard works much smoother offline. It doesn't shake while driving small curves and it is much easyer to switch between run and Hoverboard modes (I often want to switch to the avril while I am on a hb, so I jump and press the avril key and switch back to hb before I land... but it is much harder when playing online  :( )

[ArcAne]

ESRB Notice: Game experience may change during Online Play.

[aka_sova]

Yesterday in online playing i had so many lagz, that most of my shootings didn't come out. It's like i didn't see them, but they were, and i detected, that i kicked somebody by his screaming :D

[Nightmare85]

@ArcAne:
I think that's a completely different topic you mentioned.
The thread is about the online performance and the features compared to the offline mode.

The ESRB Notice only warns you that you could get a bad experience with things like chat etc.
Or that some guys use cheats or unfair tricks and so on.
That means they had warn you if you confront with them.

aka_sova:
Seems you had losses and the server might be corrupted or so.
One Epic server had hardware related problems some days ago.

Greets

[Heggi]

Might be true what u say there
but:

I cant remember getting more than 25hp loss with impact hammer. the msf servers that say's our webpage url on in game are run on windows server so try that if u think it has something to do with the OS. or maybe u charge it too much

That means you always have to think where the enemy could be after x ms.

I think this is the best way when it comes to high pings. I rather try to anticipate where people are instead of running around with lags. This is how UT has been as long as i remember and i think its a good way to handle ping difference. once u are used to shooting a couple of meters infront its not that big deal.

Shots sometimes don't come out.

I hate that too. it happened sometimes in earlier ut games too but not as often as in this game.

what i hate about this game is that weapons change is bad cause sometime it looks like u have 2 weapons at once if u are switching between a lot of weapons fast. I bet someone else must have experienced this too and it sucks a lot especially when u think that the only thing ut3 beats the previous ut games in is graphics (and maybe better vehicles)

The 2nd of my most hated bugs with ut3 is that the camera viewpoint get screwed often if u spawn and press hoverboard, it happens every now and then and the it feels like the camera flies up in the air. why cant u have 1st person view on hoverboard anyway or can u?

but for the speed of weapon switch its slow but it has always been that way but as far as i know there are mutators that says fast weapon switching, i guess that could fix this problem.

These are my first thoughts when reading ur list :)

i think ut3 feels clumsy and slow compared to smooth old ut2004 and 2003 was a lot better too.
I didnt like ut99 much compared to the 200x series but it was still more smooth than ut3.
ut99 was good until 2002 when ut2003 came out i think :)

[VegasKill]

I cant remember getting more than 25hp loss with impact hammer. the msf servers that say's our webpage url on in game are run on windows server so try that if u think it has something to do with the OS. or maybe u charge it too much

Yeah, thats one of the differences between UNIX and Windows hosts. You won't to hammerjumps that hurt 25 hp on the dark clan server. Until we switch to a windows provider we have the double damage.

I think that's a completely different topic you mentioned.
The thread is about the online performance and the features compared to the offline mode.

The ESRB Notice only warns you that you could get a bad experience with things like chat etc.

Warning about cheaters or chat texts?...Would be great to get these warnings on the game start:
In online gaming players may abuse You as cheater if you are skilled or call You noob otherwise. Don't take it serious, its just a game.

Or even better: Beware of the Dark Clan, you won't win against those guys =)

Neh, I think Arcane is right if he means the performance differences between online and offline playing. 

[ArcAne]

It would make sense for the notice to mean actual Gameplay differences than people being assholes.

It's like in the Argos cateloge, you look at an item and it says "The item(s) purchased may vary from the picture shown"

For instance the picture makes it looks big and blue, you get something small and red xD

[darkredfox]

I've sometimes the problem of nonfiring gun, mostly the linkgun. But if I change the weapon, or take the secondary, its fixed, even the primary fire.

[aka_sova]

Most of the time i have the "non firing" bug on Kargo while sitting in the tank. And i also put attention, that this usually happens when i shoot while rotations the muzzle.

[Bloody.Bender]

My nonfiring gun is the flakcannon and in  the tank like sova.

And sometimes when im in the tank something damages me but no one is firing???

[aka_sova]

And sometimes when im in the tank something damages me but no one is firing???

I think that's because your muzzle entered some object like box and shot. So it exploded inside the box and you got the damage cuz u were too close...

[Heggi]

What about invisible objects them.
I have never liked vehicles but ut3 got me a little more into it but i still hate it when a vehicles blows up and disappears but its still there. so u'll never know if u can walk through there or not. And if u do u get stuck in nothing.... this is frustrating.

[Nightmare85]

Hey guys,
Maybe it's okay that the Impact Hammer takes 50 hp.
It takes 25 hp in offline mode if the bot level is low.
Yes, very confusing!
Setting the bot level to Godlike (I haven't try out other levels) result in double self-damage with any weapons.
This happens even if you don't have any bots.... the level, that is important!
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=658402

P.S. I still don't get why some windows servers don't have this problem (as some said).

Greets

[VegasKill]

That would mean, if I set the server side default difficluty to 1 instead of 5 it may influence the IH damage? ...I will give it a try in some days. Thx for the advice, Night85, greets  .

[aka_sova]

Nightmare, you know, i paid my attention that weapons are stronger in godlike mode also! I often play with godlike bots testing different maps and mods, and stinger is 2x stronger, or even more!! I die 1 second after someone started shooting me!! That's so annoying, cuz they also know where you are all the time and accurate 100% =\

[Nightmare85]

Guys I have a question.
Maybe some of you could answer it.
(I've already asked in Epic forums - no clear answer so far).
I just paste it:

I have a small question.
Can anyone describe why the normal movement (running, crouching, jumping) is fully lag-free (no delay) in online matches?
I mean these information must be sent to the server as well.
However, shooting, getting on hoverboard ect. all these things have a delay.
That does not seem completely unified.
Even the crouching on the hoverboard has a delay, compared to the normal crouching which has no delay.

http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=26338404&posted=1#post26338404
(Current post of the thread.)

Greets

[VegasKill]

The game inputs on our pcs are client side. UT3 is a serverside based game tough. The server gets the inputs of all players, reprocesses them and sends relevant data back to the players. With delayed packages (high ping) or lost packages the server will correct positions or weapons fire according to the last known serverside informations. Suddenly teleported? Your pc got told to fix your "wrong" game play and to synchronize it with the "correct" serverside status.

Position changes like running around and jumping are part of the more tolerant actions, they are fixed only if there are severe deviations between client and server. Note eg that you can still move around the maps even if you have a disconnect on a server. On the other hand you can't fire, go in vehicles, on jumpfields or the hoverboard tough. These actions require to be confirmed by the server. If the connection to the server has a high delay it will take a long time for you to go on the hoverboard or enter vehicles (if you can at all) since the server doesn't send you the ok for these actions right in time.

little weird, how I tried to explain this. Sry for that.   

[Nightmare85]

Ok thanks Vegas.
I think you explained it clearly :)

If everything would be client side, would that be better? What do you think?
At least there wouldn't be the thing with "Where could my enemy be after x ms?"

Greets

[VegasKill]

This is a rather complicated question, I don't know what to answer.
Serverside computing solves conflicts between clients and is also sort of anti cheat protection. In some situations it could be handled better tough.
(if the hoverboard wasn't a vehicle class,... lets say, lots of problems woulddn't exist  )